Direct Day Game – A Response To Roosh

Yesterday, I read Roosh’s post entitled “4 Reasons Why I Don’t Recommend Direct Day Game“. It seems to have caught a bit of buzz in the PUA world and I thought I’d give my spin on it.

As he wrote in his post, he didn’t want to entice any “frothing at the keyboards” from direct gamers, and I’m not. I understand the points he’s made in his post, and I want to post the “other side” of the spectrum in a balanced way.

The thing with day game, much like anything else in life, is that there is no right or wrong. It depends wholly on your own opinions, what works for you and what you feel most comfortable with. You can also point to certain “excuses” for not bothering with direct day game as weaseling out of approaching, not being man enough for it, and so on. All a bunch of bollocks, really.

I respect Roosh a lot for what he’s built, and I’ve bought and read a couple of his books. I didn’t get much use out of them personally, as in my opinion, his “elderly opener” is a load of shit. That’s just me in my world, and as I said, it’s based on personal opinions. For me, I think it’s shite, detracts from the point of talking to a girl and ends up kind of lame when you transition from talking innocently about some random idea and then asking the girl out. You’d never catch me doing something like that because it just doesn’t fit my persona, and I feel uncomfortable doing it.

That said, I understand it. Not every guy can go up cold to a girl in the street and announce that they’re attracted to her and take it from there. For the purpose of writing a very popular book that appeals to the majority of guys (i.e. guys that can’t do direct day game), Roosh’s “elderly opener” is brilliant. It doesn’t take a whole lot of confidence, it doesn’t take a whole lot of thought, and it eases you into hitting on a girl. It’s the perfect recipe.

Obviously there is more to indirect game than just this elderly opener, and I don’t swing on one side of the fence when it comes to day game. I believe that the best type of day game is when you’re randomly walking around with no intent to hit on girls, but when you see someone you like then you approach them. Whether you go direct, indirect, trans-direct, bi-direct, pan-direct or whatever the fuck else you want to call it, it doesn’t matter.

I want to comment on the point Roosh made about that “running after girls is pedestalization”.

I understand where he’s coming from with this, and I’m actually in full agreement with it. “Pedestalization” isn’t the word I’d use, but running after a girl is very “beta”, and it can give the girl the wrong impression of you. Roosh said it reeks of thirst in behaviour, and I 100% agree.

As I wrote here many months ago, my game style is different than the “Yad stop” where you jump out in front of girls after running after them. I can’t bring myself to do that. I can’t bring myself to literally chase a girl because it just doesn’t seem right in the character I’m trying to build for myself.

You can’t call yourself a well put together man and literally chase after women on the streets. It doesn’t sit right with me.

What is more rounded to a valuable man’s persona, is calling out to the girl to get her attention instead of chasing after her, and this is what I do (as mentioned in the post I linked to above). Shouting out to a girl “hey” or “excuse me” so that she turns around is far more commanding and sets the tone you want to display a lot earlier.

If she doesn’t hear you, shouting “girl with the red blouse on” or something similar shows a lot of confidence and cockiness. She has to stop and turn around to engage you, not the other way around. I feel this is a far more effective method for day game because it subconsciously projects to the girl that you’re the prize, as she’s submitting to your frame immediately. It especially works if she’s a bit far away from you and you have to motion with your finger for her to approach you.

So, I’m with Roosh on this one. This is a major problem in direct game, and it sets up the wrong tone for you, I believe. How can you come off as cool, calm and collected if you’ve just sprinted to catch a girl up?

But, it works. My mates make it work and I’ve made it work, but it no longer sits right with me. Again, it makes me uncomfortable doing it and I have a lot more fun shouting at girls because it genuinely amuses me. So, although he says it’s a pedestalization, you can still turn things around to make yourself seem like the prize.

One thing that Roosh has written that I don’t agree with is where he says “complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization”.

day game

Shit day game skills

Now, in principle, yes, it is a pedestalization, but I’ve never, ever had problems with complimenting a girl on their looks from the get-go. Okay, I have once, but it was literally my first ever direct day game opener. I was nervous as hell, I didn’t know what the fuck to say to her, and I didn’t give a very good impression of myself.

Now, complimenting a girl on her looks isn’t a bad thing providing you’ve given yourself the right tools to be able to do it. For example, if you’ve built a high level of confidence that intimidates her, if you’re good looking, if your value is high and if she feels lower than your overall worth. Any of these things, you can say whatever the hell you want to her.

My general impression, and of course I may be wrong, is that if a girl says “thanks for the compliment” is because you haven’t won her over. You haven’t built the right attraction and she now feels higher value than you. This is where the “pedestalization” comes into it.

I’m a big advocate of improving your life as a man, and improving your overall worth. If you’re a long term reader of this blog, you’ll see that transition over time from the summer last year.

If you’ve given yourself the easiest ride possible when hitting on a girl, “pedestalization” doesn’t even come into it. If you’ve built your confidence up to an untouchable level through changing your appearance physically, wearing better clothes, gaining wealth and social proof, and being genuinely happy in your life, a girl will never, and I mean never, feel like you’ve put her on a pedestal.

Instead, she will feel attracted to you and turned on by the fact that you’ve chosen her to speak to. I’ve written about it before in this post – a girl will immediately be able to tell your value.

Low value guys get friendzoned and get shot down because they put girls at a higher level than them even if it wasn’t their intention to do so. A high value guy can say whatever the fuck he wants to a girl without fear of being shot down because complimenting her makes him seem like the weak one, and her the strong one.

For me, direct day game all centres around the frame you’ve built for yourself. Another thing I’ve read from Roosh before is not to use smilies in text messages with girls. Again, I largely agree with this, but it all depends on the frame you set with the girl.

If she knows you’re not a loser, if she knows you’re a high value guy, if she knows you’re confident and strong, then she’ll let you get away with anything without harming her attraction for you. I use emoji with girls all the time on whatsapp. They fucking love it.

However, if I start sending :P faces to girls that don’t know what I’m like, then they’ll think I’m weak and it’s not a turn on for them.

Anyway, the point is, complimenting a girl is only a “pedestalization” if you’ve not worked on yourself to become higher value than her. Case in point, if I said the exact same lines today to a girl that I did on my very first approach, the results would be massively different.

No girl since that one has ever thanked me for a compliment. If I give a girl a compliment when I do a direct day game opener with her, she simply won’t feel higher value than me because of my delivery, my persona, my confidence and the value she sees in me.

I can’t comment on Roosh’s direct day game because I’ve not seen it in action, but my guess would be that he’s not building attraction with these girls because he’s putting across the impression that they are higher value than him. Hence them thanking him.

Personally, I switch up what I say to girls every single time. I see it more as a conversation rather than a “day game set”, so I stay away from scripts. But I do compliment girls. A more natural opener for me is “I wanted to talk to you because you caught my eye”. For girls that don’t speak English very well, whether in London or in Europe, “caught my eye” isn’t a phrase that they know, so it’s much easier to tell them something like “you’re cute”, “you’re very pretty”, and so on.

I believe telling a girl straight to her eyes, with unshakeable and unmovable confidence that you find her attractive is a very strong signal. In a way, it’s almost a put down. Because you’re so confident in displaying your attraction, she gets nervous and shy, and this can only work in your favour.

So, in principle, I agree with Roosh that complimenting girls can be a pedestalization that works against you – but in such an instance you’ve only got yourself to blame. I’ve had no problem with it, and I know other guys that haven’t had a problem with it.

In the indecision of “should I go direct or indirect” with a girl, I’d say this:

  • Get to the gym to build your physical presence
  • Earn some money to build your confidence
  • Speak to more people to build social lubrication
  • Have a group of like minded friends to keep you on your toes
  • Wear good clothes to be more attractive
  • Strive for the feeling of being untouchably confident
  • Know your real worth

Because if you put yourself in a position where you don’t feel empty inside, your confidence doesn’t take hits from outside sources, and anyone you talk to can’t overtake your value, then your results with women will improve immeasurably – and you won’t be told “thank you for the compliment”.

Matt

Matt is the youngest Bromigo and an avid supporter/gobshite of Liverpool FC. Spanish girls apply within.

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  • http://kennyspuathoughts.com/ socialkenny

    I never do direct game whether morning, noon or night. I’ve always held the belief that indirect game is king. I’ve never used a direct opener in my life. Sure I think it will work if I do use it since my non-verbals are in order, but I just don’t think indirectly praising women is the best way to go. Most UK game guys seem to use openers which I think put women on pedestals. I might be wrong unless I need to re read your article for something I might’ve missed.

    • http://www.the3bromigos.com Matt

      Yeah, I think you’ve missed the point I’m making mate.

  • http://kennyspuathoughts.com/ socialkenny

    @Matt- I know what you’re advocating (direct-day game), but I must say that I agree with Roosh here.

    • http://www.the3bromigos.com Matt

      I understand both sides of the coin. As I said in the post, it all comes down to opinions. There’s no use me forcing direct day game down a guy’s throat that clearly isn’t comfortable doing it, just as there’s no use in someone forcing indirect day game down my throat. Whatever suits your style and you find the best: go with. What other people eat doesn’t make me shit, but either way, if you improve yourself as a man like I’ve mentioned, then your results will improve immeasurably. “Thanks for the compliment” is a sign of failure to attract a girl, basically. Nothing to do with direct day game as a whole.

  • http://kennyspuathoughts.com/ socialkenny

    Just as Roosh said in his opening article, “complementing women as openers seems like pedestalization”. I agree totally. However, what I do say about UK game guys in defense is that their non-verbal are “ON”, therefore they aren’t coming off as needy and lame.

  • http://www.the3bromigos.com bojangles

    Just robbed this from Krauser, it’s apt as it applies to what we do here in the London Daygame world:
    1.Complimenting girls as an opener is pedestalization

    That’s why we adopt the compliment-tease on the open, and then do lots of framing, teasing and challenging in the vibing stage right after. The first two minutes contain alot of Push to balance the Pull. We aren’t trying to sell her with the statement of intent alone (i.e. “I just said I like you, so now you have to decide if you like me”), the SOI is meant to set the frame, convey confidence, create an impact and mostly just hijack her mind for long enough to stop her feet and get her talking. It’s called flirting and the Community didn’t invent it.

    2. Direct openers put girls on a temporary high

    Agreed, and that’s the point. The LDM is designed to sweep women off their feet and create a larger-than-life impression. That’s precisely how a man can pull girls who would normally be out of this league (such as 38-yr old me averaging girls aged 25 and hot). We subsequently advise dialling down the energy and filtering to prevent timewaster girls who simply get off on the validation. I call them WindowShoppers and have a page in my book on how to filter them out.

    That’s his reply to roosh’s blog post.

  • Cad and Bounder

    “Shouting out to a girl “hey” or “excuse me” so that she turns around is far more commanding and sets the tone you want to display a lot earlier.”

    This is so true. The run-around YadStop has the disadvantage of looking somewhat contrived. And if you feel its contrived, it will come across that way. Also, you simply can’t get away with it for too long in a smaller city.

    I understand why younger guys like the runaround+canned routines though, it gives them a standardized method to which they can apply, and the rest is a matter of numbers. However, a guy who is comfortable in himself can just confidently walk up to a girl and talk to her. The PUA community didn’t invent the idea of talking to a girl.

    • https://facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003137873619 Dean Alexander

      Good comment. “Contrived” has hit the nail on the head with the Yad Stop. It just doesn’t sit with me, especially at 42 and fairly new to game. I think I’ll leave that to the young ‘uns.

  • https://facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003137873619 Dean Alexander

    Hi. Thanks for great article. I am a firm believer in direct game as a beginner as it fits in with my personality of honesty and directness. I can look at myself in the mirror each morning you know? . The girls not stupid – she knows what you want. I use the general compliment as an opener and role with the London model.

    What are your thoughts on mixing the compliment with a light tease/qualifier a la Krauser, so placing her on a pedestal is reduced. I am still avoiding this one, because I believe a strong masculine, non-supplicating intent form the outset should be enough.

    Thanks in advance for any feedback.

    • http://www.the3bromigos.com Matt

      Dean

      I wrote it here in the post:

      “Anyway, the point is, complimenting a girl is only a “pedestalization” if you’ve not worked on yourself to become higher value than her. Case in point, if I said the exact same lines today to a girl that I did on my very first approach, the results would be massively different.

      No girl since that one has ever thanked me for a compliment. If I give a girl a compliment when I do a direct day game opener with her, she simply won’t feel higher value than me because of my delivery, my persona, my confidence and the value she sees in me.”

      When you stop thinking about the science of what you’re doing, then your conversation will flow easier. Your confidence will also improve because you’re not second guessing your thoughts, you’re not holding back and you’re being true to who you are.

      I strongly advocate self improvement. Being the best you can be makes a lot of “game” obsolete. I used to analyse myself in my approaches, say to myself “why did I say that?” “this would’ve been said better…” and so on.

      However, as my confidence improved and my financial and physical situation, I stopped caring so much about that stuff. My abundance mentality took over and I developed the thought of “if I don’t get with her, so what?” (I recently talked about this in my post “so you won’t have sex with her? Big fucking deal”).

      If you’re thinking about putting her on a pedestal, if you’re conscious of sticking her on a pedestal, then you’re losing. You’re not outcome independent. Your frame has to be unshakeable, and it has to be like you’re rewarding her with a compliment rather than giving her value. How do you do this? Stop giving a shit about what you say. Know internally that you’re better than her no matter what you say or do. And don’t be afraid of walking away empty handed.

      Internalise this, and your confidence and value will be on display for her to not even think about you being like every other guy that compliments her. Don’t make it a big deal, because it’s not.

  • Captain Gh

    Even though I taught you were a little bit out of line with your most recent comments on RVF, I must say that your daygame advice and website are on deck! As a NFL looking like black men, the Yad stop just made me feel like I wanted to rob peps!!

    The Yosha one isn’t as abrasive, but still made me feel weary! I never once taught about slightly yelling as a way to stop her! I think you just solved the last hurtle in my game man, so a big thanks for that! I’ll be sure to report on my success with the new “Capture phase”.